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Fine Artist vs. Illustrator

by Keith Bond on 4/12/2010 2:25:54 PM

This article is by Keith Bond, Regular contributing writer for FineArtViews.  You should submit an article and share your views as a guest author by clicking here.



I once heard someone define the difference between a fine artist and an illustrator as: an illustrator answers questions while a fine artist asks questions. I have thought about this statement on many occasions over the past several years. Is it really that simple? Can you really place all true fine artists in the category of asking questions? Can you really place all illustrators in the other camp; that of answering questions?

To the guy’s credit who said that, I understand his argument. At least I think I understand what he was trying to get across. This is his argument:

An illustrator is paid to pictorially portray the client’s message. The illustrator must problem-solve. The client has a question: how do I get consumers to want my product? The illustrator answers that question: simple, show a cool character having fun with that product. The illustrator communicates that message through the artwork.

The fine artist on the other hand is searching and seeking some elusive idea, or thought, or meaning. It is a quest for understanding or truth. Questions are being asked in an effort to make sense of the world or of one’s self. The true artist answers to no one but himself or herself. No idea suggested by another would ever inter into the true artist’s repertoire. That would be blasphemous to the true purpose of art. The true artist is introspective and inquisitive. He/she is a deep thinker, a philosopher, a poet.

Sounds simple, eh? The artist is inquisitive, continually asking questions about the world around us. The illustrator is simply answering other people’s questions. Makes sense, doesn’t it? Hmmm. Not so fast. I don’t think it is that simple. I don’t think artists are that simple. I don’t think illustrators are that simple.

I cannot speak for others. So I will speak for myself here. For me, I am on a quest for understanding and truth. I do ask questions. I do find myself in awe as I discover things about the world and myself. I ponder often. But, I also wish to communicate a message to others. I wish to express my reverence for the world in which we live. So for me, art is a means of both exploration AND veneration. I am both asking and answering questions.

But you may argue that I am answering my own questions, whereas an illustrator answers other people’s questions. On the surface that argument seems valid. But I disagree. My work is answering the questions that many of us share about the world. Certainly not everyone shares all the same questions. But a lot of people want to know what I want to know. I find that it is my responsibility to show them the answers that I am finding. By asking questions, I discover ways to answer those same questions that so many others are also asking. Thus, my exploration leads to veneration and explanation. Yes, I both ask and answer. Enough about me.

I think there are many artists and illustrators who share the same sentiments. Illustrators can and do ask questions. Fine artists can and do answer questions. We are really not that different. You may disagree. That is completely fine. This is only an opinion. But I really do think that illustrators are not that much different than the so called fine artist. By the way, what does ‘fine’ mean anyway?

Both illustrators and fine artists communicate a message. Art is a language. The difference is only in who pays for the art and perhaps the seed of inspiration for a work. There are many so called fine artists who look down upon commercial artists. I have a great respect for the work illustrators do. Many of them are far better painters than I will ever hope to be. They have found a way to use their talents to communicate with others. They are artists in my book.

I will admit, there are those illustrators and fine artists alike who aren’t true to themselves. They are shallow and don’t look deeply into themselves or the world. In my book, regardless of how skilled they are in their craft, these are neither artists nor illustrators. These personalities create other people’s ideas rather than their own. They are mimickers. But that is another topic for another day.

I am interested in your opinion about what an artist does. Why do you create? Are you asking or answering questions? Are you oblivious to any purpose whatsoever with your art? Does art need a purpose? Is the simple act of creating the fulfillment of the purpose of art? Please share your thoughts.

This post has only scratched the surface on this topic. It is a very small drop in a very large bucket. The purpose of art is a question that many have contemplated for centuries. I don’t think we will ever get to the bottom of it in this life. I will share other thoughts on the broader subject in the future. Sharing thoughts with one another is rewarding and enlightening. Please contribute yours.

Sincerely,

Keith Bond

PS. While in college, I entered a charcoal drawing of an Indian into the student fine art exhibit. The juror (one of the professors) rejected the piece, stating that it belonged in the commercial art exhibit.


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 76 Comments

Karen
via fineartviews.com
Hopefully whenever I'm doing a plein air painting I'm answering questions that I ask about light, time of day, the color of the atmosphere. Does that make it an illustration or a piece of fine art? Interesting thoughts, Clint.

To take it in another direction, if we paint a portrait or landscape on commission for a client, is that an illustration or fine art? My patrons would say fine art. But yet I am solving problems in response to a client's request - something that illustrators commonly do.

Thanks for raising this question!
Kohlene hendrickson
via fineartviews.com
Hello Keith, good article! I have lived and created both as an illustrator and a fine artist. When I decided to really make the transition out of illustration it was based on finally choosing to put my work, my ideas on my main platform. For years I used my talent to help people express their ideas, images or products. I am honored to have been able to do this and make a living from it. However, having fully committed to "my painting" I feel l am finally fully expressing what I was born to create.

I have passed thru a very radical change in my painting style and jest of painting after entering several meditational journeys which helped me experience CREATIVITY in a very different way. I have been told to become the mesh, letting inspiration flow thru, holding no fixed thoughts and dancing with the response of the paint and my years of life experience. The spontaneous process is full of surprise and magic.

Of course I have asked many questions to come to this experience...and the dance ever continues.
Sharon Weaver
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For me it is the process that is most rewarding. As I paint, I am constantly making decisions that are my own answer. How do I capture the essence of this place? What colors are in those shadows? The line between art and commercial art is another question. Is Lady Gaga an artist? Some say yes, others no. How many fine artists have crossed over from commercial art? A lot. Fun questions but as you point out, probably no right answer.

Karen Blackwood
via fineartviews.com
Hi Keith, A great topic. This is a question, I think, art historians have struggled with thru the ages. Karen, I thought of the same point that artists doing portraits are responding to a clients needs and I believe John Singer Sargent (one of my favorites) was and artist whose work was debated probably due to that same question painting for ones-self versus painting for another. Other fine artist including La Farge have done large scale commissions for clients and still maintained a fine art status. When I have done commissioned works I have tried to take the clients input and express it through my own interpretation of their ideas. I've seen some illustrative work that seems to rise above that category because there was an emotional connection for me. I think we as artists bring our personal emotions whatever questions we are asking or answering and by exposing that layer of personal truth we are elevating what could be a removed and impersonal design to a personally compelling piece that says something about both the subject and the artist.

Cliff Higdon
via fineartviews.com
I have been doing the Art thing ever since I could pickup a pencil and I'm now in my 70th year and I still do not know what it means or what I do, illustration or fine art. I've been called both by people who should know, gallery owners, teachers and my peers. So I still have the dilemma of not knowing what my Art is.

But, I do it because I can, because I love the marks I make and the outcome of my struggle. So labels be damned just do it.
Joanne Benson
via fineartviews.com
Great and controversial topic Keith. I think there is a very fine and blurry line that is kind of like a membrane and artists and illustrators seep through the membrane and travel back and forth.....sometimes we are mimicers and sometimes we are creators. I don't think there will ever be a definative answer to the question!
Esther J. Williams
via fineartviews.com
Keith, I have illustrated for hire and of course created fine art without a thought of earning a buck for it in my beginnings. I have answered the questions that an illustrator is supposed to do and asked the questions that a fine artist feels the need for.
I created from an early age due to an innate desire, a burning from within to cause a reaction with color and line since I was 3 years old. It was always to release creative energy. When I was asked to paint things and get paid for it, the money enticed me, but I still was able to create something with my mark on it, unique.
After attending several colleges studying art, architectural drawing, design and fashion illustration, I realized there is a divide between fine art and illustration. Each category involves studying the elements of art: line, shape, value, texture, color, etc... Art can be a faithful representation of an object or scenery in both categories and it can also be abstractive in both.
I see fine art as the ability to combine the elements of art to create inwardly inspired works of art. I see illustration as being a representation of a preconceived idea or object or figure.
As a fine artist, I can ponder for days and not know what I am heading for, there is just something ticking inside, I am asking myself questions as to why I FEEL funny and there`s a ripple going through me. All of a sudden, in a moment, I get a bleed through, a vision, a passage of wisdom that guides me to a new approach in painting. That`s fine art to me. Discovering new ways to create form on a blank canvas using those wonderful elements of line, shape, value, texture and color. The drive is from within but it is coupled with the visual inspirations we see daily in life.
I am not discounting illustration whatsoever, I just think there is a concrete difference from my experiences.

Charlotte Herczfeld
via fineartviews.com
Hi Keith, oooo, stirring the wasp's nest, are we? The art-world is so full of... statements of the kind: the-one-and-only-truth-my-truth. As you, I've seen several illustrators turned fine artists, and they're miles ahead. Possibly because they've put in more hours of practice, and because they've learned to get a message across efficiently. They also know tons about composition. And, they earn money... ;-)

The main point for all kinds of artists is if their art communicates with other humans. Artists express a desire to express. Themselves, their inner creativity, the meaning of life, the beauty of the world/human soul, the divine. And the not so pretty parts of our universe, too. In short, artists do art in order to say *something*. So the other part of expressing is having something *to* express, and the third part is reaching people with the message/statement/expression.

Lofty or low, that statement necessitates questions asked, problems solved, and reaching out with the message in a way that can be understood. (Yeah, I know, art for art's sake, I happen to be of another opinion entirely.)

The artist also needs to be fluent in their means of expression, the *craft* part of their art. More problems to solve, and questions to ask.

Toulouse-Lautrec did posters, Monet decorated a whole big room, and Rockwell told lovingly humourous stories of everyday life and human emotions. Artfully, all of them.

Somewhere, the bottom line for me is the joy that is the purpose of creating, not the label stuck on people.

I ask questions, I try to answer some of them, or hint at the mystery of them. Very often I try to find the answer to: what exact shade of green is that leaf?

My personal quest is for a bit of truth, preferably Plein Air, about the glorious beauty in the shimmering light all around us, as a reflection of the all-encompassing Eternal Light that is Truth -- Deum de Deo, Lumen de Lumine.

It is a quest for the grail... where the journey of creating in one way also is the goal.






Kohlene hendrickson
via fineartviews.com
Very well expressed Esther!
Trent Gudmundsen
via fineartviews.com
I think there's really no boundary, except the one the artist defines for him or herself. Sometimes those who cross over from "fine" to commercial art are seen as sell-outs. But all of us who either do (or would love to) make a living selling our works are "commercial" artists in a way because we are and should be considering our audience/clients. Right now I'm trying out for a public mural commission, and you better believe I'm going to be trying to "answer the clients questions" with the painting...but then again, I'm also going to put my heart into making it a true work of art. I think the boundary gets pretty fuzzy at times.
Karen
via fineartviews.com
Sorry, Keith, to get the name wrong. I had "Clint" on my mind - I'm not myself today ...
Nancy Park
via fineartviews.com
There are many commercial artists who also developed as fine artists. I have had a lifelong career in commercial art. I have also painted at home, many times by commission, and winning awards.

So there is no either/or. And life isn't as simple as that formula of answering or asking questions. We all, as human beings, ask and answer questions. Every human being also has a creative streak that will express itself if not smothered.

Casey Craig
via fineartviews.com
When I was taking a college illustration class, Murray Tinkleman came and did a presentation. His defined the difference between illustrators and fine artists as: illustration work is commissioned and usually created for print(reproduction) and fine art hangs on the wall. Having your work reproduce well was a must for the budding illustrator.

I used to work as an illustrator and now have switched over to fine art. Some assignments allowed very little creative interpretation and others were whatever I wanted as long as it went with the story. I enjoyed illustration work, but now prefer to paint what I want and I don't have to wait for an assignment.

Illustrators are artists in my book too, Keith. Thanks!


Carol Schmauder
via fineartviews.com
What an insightful, thought provoking article. I once illustrated a childrens book specifically addressing the author's words. I had a great time and was pleased with the results. When I paint I what I want, I usually paint a subject that moves me in some way. I hold a degree in graphic art and advertising and I enjoy all the areas that touch my artistic life. I enjoy designing a catalog or brochure as much as I enjoy doing a painting. I like your statement that "art is a means of both exploration and veneration.

Tom Weinkle
via fineartviews.com
This is a big topic, and I think you have framed it beautifully.

Indeed, illustrators go beyond the assignment and ask questions or communicate ideas the client or art director never thought about. They, like the artist bring their own view of things to the work they create, the message they were asked to illuminate.

As an artist, I like to think my view and my technique is part of how I embed my reaction to what I see, and what I want to say.

I consider creating art an act of sharing.

Sometimes what I want to say is formulated before I have an image in mind, and other times a scene inspires me to try and say something i think others also like to think about.

There is a lot more to say for sure.

tom

Helen Horn Musser
via fineartviews.com
Hi Keith, Great topic. Many thoughts run through my mind but, I will have to gell some before sharing. Thank you for this thought provoking foremat.
Peace,
Helen Horn Musser

Barb Stachow
via fineartviews.com
I must say you got me thinking, I started out as a decorative artist and people questionsed the difference in decoarative artist and the fine artist too. To my way of thinking we are all artists trying to fill a gap...the illistrator illistrates an object or objects to tell a story, and the decorative artist illistrates designs to tell a story and the fine artist uses fine lines to illistates an idea. Thats my story and I'mm sticking with it.
Jodi
via fineartviews.com
I don't know, I have seen many illustrations that have made me ask questions that were certainly never answered. I have also seen some Fine art that never made me ask any question nor were any questions answered by the work. I think a Fine Artist and an Illustrator can do both, ask and answer questions. There just isn't a once size fits all category for each artist. Good article.
Joanne Benson
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Nancy, I love they way you put it and agree with you whole heartedly!
Helen Horn Musser
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Keith, The most prolific artist and illustrator I can think of was Norman Rockwell. He had such a sense of history about his paintings and illustrations that he fills us with wonderful feelings about the early 1900's Family was important to him, as well as, life in a small town or village. His art is fine art and illustration combined. I'm sure there are many others in modernity that are doing some of the same work. Artists have always depicted the history of mankind. From the early cave dwellers to the twenty first century we see history unfolding before us.

Kim
via fineartviews.com
I was a scientific illustrator for a number of years, and my primary objective was to facilitate clearer communication of scientific ideas between science professionals. Aesthetic issues were not a high priority, although I tried to inject some of that sensibility into my scientific illustration. Fine art is a different animal, although communication certainly plays a role in many fine artists' work. Perhaps we are trying to communicate a broader range of ideas and human emotions-? At least with my 'fine art' I am!
Jan Allsopp
via fineartviews.com
I never thought of myself as asking questions when making art before beyond the mastery questions like "how do I get it to look (this) way?" My art is about the everyday. I hope to show that the everyday, the part of life we spend most of our life in, is the most important and reveal that it is in fact extraordinary. I believe this and that is why I want to share my insight with people who are constantly searching for peak experiences and the extraordinary. "Searching" means their eye is always on the future and they miss the day they are in. Some people miss all of the days they are in. However I don't always know how to express that in my art and because I feel the need to convey my message I am frequently at an impasse about what to create. Thanks for this article. I now realize i can ask myself the same questions while I'm painting that I hope my viewers will be led to ask themselves. I am relieved to know I don't needto have all the answers myself first.
Maureen Sharkey
via fineartviews.com
Loved this article!
I was an Illustrator for years and argued there is only good art, and not so good art. Most of the time, as an illustrator, I would just do it my way--which was different than the rough I was given, and 90 percent of the time, the client was happier with the soul I put in with my idea.

During the later 1970's I was an art major at a University. The trend then was 'no realism---abstract, totally non-objective work was all that mattered', and was told by my teachers to go to a commercial art school, which I did, and flourished there. Now, today, it is a trend at high end galleries to have realism once again. At the cammercial art schools today, and back then, I think the students just really want to be realistic painters.
Once I graduated, I had the audacity to take my portfolio to the top reps of Bernie Fuchs and Mark English; Jack O'Grady, and he and his reps said that I was a 'painter' and to not do that to myself---meaning, don't be a commercial artist. Well, I needed to make a living so I didn't take their advice, but rather spent the last 30 years of my life as a commercial artist, and a painter on the side. But even commissioned portraits and paintings are no different than commercial art.
But now I am working towards being a painter who just paints what I want....but I do find myself asking for advice on my paintings, even from those ignorant of art. So maybe all my work is a collaberation--and just an accumulation of my mind from my life. Mark Twain said that man has never come up with an original idea--we just observe and combine in new ways.
Carole Rodrigue
via fineartviews.com
Hmmm,the whole time I was reading this article I kept thinking about Robert Bateman and how he was often accused of being an illustrator and not producing real art. Who decides? And who, in this generation, has done more for wildlife art that Robert Bateman? His art was considered "fine" enough to present to Prince Charles and Princess Diana by the Canadian government as their wedding gift.

I suppose the debate will always exist. I, for one, think Robert Bateman is one of those great masters who will still be discussed hundreds of years from now. Meanwhile,some artsy fartsies from the CBC have loved slandering his art because he doesn't paint abstract. Pfft ... I have to wonder just how much talent they have.

For me, fine art is depicting what I find beautiful. For others, it could be about the expression of political views, or other issues. I like to paint things that fascinate and intrigue me, things of beauty, and things that make people feel good after having looked at one of my pieces. I'm perhaps not provocative, but I think today's society is provoked enough from so many external sources that one needs an escape and to be soothed. That's what I try to do.
Joanne Benson
via fineartviews.com
Carole, I'm with you! Paint what you love, things of beauty and things to soothe. We have enough stresses in life without having our art provoke more stress......Besides you can be provocative with beautiful art as well!
Gina Buzby
via fineartviews.com
I think it is true that illustrations TYPICALLY answer a question and fine art TYPICALLY asks a question. That is very true, in my opinion.

Carole Rodrigue
via fineartviews.com
Amen to that Joanne! And you're also right about beautiful art being provocative. Some people seem to be even provoked by beauty! But I know what you mean that yes, beautiful art can also be provocative. But doesn't looking at something beautiful just make you feel better? There's just too much ugliness in the world as it is, so I prefer to concentrate on beauty and things that create joy and peace. But that's just me. :-)
Marge Heilman
via fineartviews.com
Keith, your words - "I do find myself in awe as I discover things about the world and myself. I ponder often. But, I also wish to communicate a message to others. I wish to express my reverence for the world in which we live." gives voice to what I felt as a little girl peering through the wheat field of my family's farm, smelling the slight moisture of budding wheat kernels, marveling at the color, the drama, the blessed light giving the colors such sparkle and splendor. When I paint I feel this all over again and now as when I was that little girl, I want to share, to celebrate, to memorize and memorialize this beautiful world we live in. Whether it is the beauty of a father's muscled, sweaty arm as it pulls the horses reins or the pulsing foaming sweat of the horse's breast as it strains against the load, capturing that beauty always has and always will be the passion I succumb to. And thanks to you and those whom you gather into this community, the energy flows to new days and new paintings.
Carl Purcell
via fineartviews.com
Very good comments to a well crafted question. In the end of course, there is no concrete answer because we have never and can never define exactly what is and is not art. The only real answer is found in our own art experiences.
My own art ranges from exclamations of joy at the beauty around me to explorations into a subject to try to understand why I am drawn to it. In some paintings I respond to the visual excitement I see, in others I revel in the beauty of the marks on a surface.
Any attempt to define which is fine art and which is illustration is only possible in the areas clearly in one camp or the other. But the gray area that lies between is filled with some wonderful, hard to define works which, like art through the ages is a sampling of great and horrid.
I will let the next generation decide if what I did had any meaning or not. But right now while I am doing it, it has meaning for me.
Carole Rodrigue
via fineartviews.com
Marge, you said that sooo well!
Keith Bond
via fineartviews.com
Thanks to each of you for your added insights. I wish someone would answer that pesky question - what is art? Then we could finally figure this whole thing out! In reality, the ambiguity of it all is part of the magic. I hope we never get the questions answered. But is sure is fun to try!

Kim
via fineartviews.com
"I wish someone would answer that pesky question - what is art?"

Context is part of the answer, but context can change and something that is utilitarian or non-art in one context can be perceived as art in a different setting. Art may be a very slippery thing. Maybe the only definite thing that can be said is that it is generated by the human mind, and I'm not even sure of that after seeing the extravagant assemblages of bower birds! Art involves certain formal qualities, but not everyone perceives these qualities the same way. Maybe art has its own internal sense of order that takes precedence over all other possible considerations, while illustration defers to those externals to varying degrees. Or maybe not. Now I'm really confused...
Helen Horn Musser
via fineartviews.com
Keith, The way I have explained art to myself is: Art is the very essence of our being. It is the visible evidence of our intrinsic nature. We have fine art which is what I'm speaking to primarily; also, musical art, and dramatic art. All of which is evidence of our soul manifesting itself toward each other. It is a higher form of communication than simply language. I would like to hear more of what you think art is.

Margie Guyot
via fineartviews.com
Somebody once said the difference between an illustration and fine art is the price of the frame.
Karen Blackwood
via fineartviews.com
This article keeps drawing me in. I think this question is the embodiment of the "critic" many artists carry with them whether real or imagined. The question is always there, "is what I'm painting serious enough to be real art?" Possibly because the art we make may not bring us the acceptance and approval we seek, we are vulnerable to this "critic". If things are going great,ie awards, acceptance, we say to ourselves "I must be making great works of art" but if there are no accolades.. we may start to doubt our achievements. With illustration, or commissioned work, you have instant feedback (approval from the client) but with fine art, you make all decisions on your own and are left exposed - telling all that this is what you love and think worthy of exploration. And if what you love is rejected or worse, overlooked, you must ignore all doubt and distraction, cast aside the "critic" to listen to your own voice and paint again.

Tom Weinkle
via fineartviews.com
Maureen Sharkey...you go girl!

Carol Schmauder
via fineartviews.com
Carole, I agree that there is too much ugliness in the world. I have never been attracted to art that is dark. My hope is to bring happiness into someone's life with the art I create.

Carole Rodrigue
via fineartviews.com
Carol, I think so many of us are just so tired of the ugliness. Why create more? This society, especially, needs a break from all of the insanity and we need to take a step back and breathe, and absorb the beauty around us. Maybe this will be the new movement? Creating peace and beauty in a world full of conflict, a new renaissance of sorts.
Diane Tasselmyer
via fineartviews.com
After spending years making clay models of cars for the automotive industry, I realized there was a piece of the "creative me" that ached to be expressed.(and there was no time to do that)

I paint because it's fulfilling. If I do not paint I don't feel right....I don't feel complete. I will yearn for that time to paint.

sue Martin
via fineartviews.com
Great questions, Keith, and great answers from others. I'm not an illustrator, though I have done some illustration for a few clients, so I will speak from that limited experience. When I have a client (for illustration or a commissioned "art" piece), I always have their needs in mind. As you said, I'm problem solving, working out the challenges so that the piece will meet their needs. When I'm creating "fine art," I'm responding to my own feelings and trying to express that through the paint and brush strokes. So, I guess it's a slightly different focus during the creative process. I've known a number of illustrators who enjoy working on paintings "just for themselves." I believe they feel a release of spirit. And they are some of the best fine art painters I know.

Al Johannessen
via fineartviews.com
Great article,I have wondered about this for years.I don't know the answers and I am sure I never will.I do know I sometimes come up with a painting that gives me a feeling of great satisfaction,and I understand why I keep painting.
Al
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Commercial or fine art that is coming from the heart is the same. So don't really see a difference. One has a assignment and the other doesn't, does not make a difference. For me it would be harder to do commercial art and get my heart into it. So I have high respect for the person that does this.

Helen Horn Musser
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Al, my spirit was drawn to your assesments. The illustrator has just as much if not more talent than the fine artists(or some of them)(there are some fine artists who come to mind that have more). Would never dismiss an illustrator as not being in the same catergory as a fine artist.

Judy Mudd
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Even though I am an artist, I sometimes feel like an illustrator when I attempt to capture the desires of an individual in a commission. After all, I'm painting for them. However, depending upon the client, I feel this is often restrictive and actually takes much of the freedom of expression and enjoyment out of painting. So maybe, we are both artists and illustrators, depending upon what we are painting and how we feel about it at the time.
Lynne Fearman
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I started out as an illustrator in the early 70's. I was in awe of the techniques of Bob Peak, Mark English, and Frank Frazetta. My father was a science fiction illustrator, and as far as I was concerned there could be no higher calling for an artist.
It was so amazing to me when I started associating with "fine artists", that there was a snobbish, down playing of the illustrator's abilities. Almost as if these artists didn't count in the mainstream of art.
As far as I could see at the time the illustrators were much clearer in telling a story with drama, and light. I was proud to aspire to their lever of artistic expression.
Personally, I think, if the skill of the artist that communicates to the audience, whether selling a product or painting from the heart. If the viewer is drawn in, engaged and enthralled, that is a successful piece of art!

Kathy Chin
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Wow Keith,

Heavy duty questions you've asked. I'm a very curious person, and love to find out about "things." Nature is obviously fascinating to a lot of us, although we may each choose different facets to portray. For example, I've found a fascination with birds, don't know why, never did before, but now I relish the challenge of trying to capture their beauty. A bit of a conflict though. Many a nature photographer would recoil in horror at the thought of "adding to" Nature's innate beauty. I too have a reverence for the world around me, but I admit I've struggled with my personal need to add touches to enhance that beauty. It's one thing to work to improve on an image of a flower...but what about a bird, or a horse, or an insect? Seems like there's almost something sacrilegious about it. Guess I just want others to see the beauty that i see. We've all seen birds and horses and insects, but we don't often stop to appreciate their wonder (unless it's in a series like "Life!") I guess we create because some of us must. It wouldn't matter if we couldn't share it with others...we just "must." Is that what some call "art for art's sake?"
Marige Murray
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I feel that illustrators and fine artists when they are creating are speaking the same visual language .The really great ones are concerned about color theory, composition, emotional responses, technique and continually question their abilities to communicate their ideas with their audience.
I have been blessed to have studied with some wonderful teachers who started out as illustrators where the money was more lucrative and after being established left to pursue a fine art career. Great painters the likes of Maynard Dixon, Ed Mell, Noel Quinn, Maxfield Parrish, and Howard Terpning to name a few started out illustrating but their lasting legacy I believe will be the fine art that they created during their lifetime.


Marta Brysha
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Thanks Keith for this excellent article. You are right when you say it is just a drop in the ocean on this topic. I get really frustrated with the constant categorising of artists. In my opinion there is quality work that has something to say and there is work of poor quality that conveys nothing. Having said this, we are all artists and should support one another. My father, a professional orchestral musician used to give money to every busker he saw. When I was about 18 years old and beginning my university education in music we walked past a busker who was clearly down and out and not very good. I said "Dad, he was terrible, why did you give him money?" My dad answered: "we are all musicians, we are just at different places along the road. Some of us are lucky and get to work in a world class orchestra and make a comfortable living from our music. Others are not so lucky. We have to support those who are not so far along." A very wise man my father. On that day he completely changed my outlook. I lost that ignorant teenage snobbery and embraced all my fellow musicians. Yes, sometimes they were terrible, but they were creating music and in their small way making the world a better place.
Marta Brysha
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I guess my point is that whether someone is tagged and artist or illustrator is irrelevant. We must all strive to create something meaningful with as much skill as we can. Some of us will reach dizzying levels of profundity and beauty. Others will not quite make it. It is the intention and the striving that is most important.
Helen Horn Musser
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Marta, you've said it well.

Joanne Benson
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Karen B, Lynne and Marsha, Great comments all! The "critic" is always looming....a successful work will speak to the audience....And we are all at a different place in our journey...YES!
sue Martin
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Marta, thanks so much for sharing your lovely story about your father's generosity. It's a wonderful life lesson. If there were more of that generosity of spirit (as well as money, at times), that encourages creativity at every level, the world would be a better place!

Maureen Sharkey
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I am working on a children's book, my Mother just emailed me with her 'ideas'. It bugs me a bit. Maybe this intrusive feeling is a reflection of the ego. Maybe it's just the ego that gives loftiness to the idea of the fine arts artist being solo. Ah, to be free of the harrassment of other's opinions.
Helen Horn Musser
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Maureen, You are ever so normal, you can do this!

sue Martin
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Maureen, it does seem ideal to "be free of the harassment of other's opinions." But it seems to me that if we're "out there," trying to sell our work, we have to pay at least a bit of attention to opinions while still being true to our own artistic vision. It's a balancing act for sure. And, regarding your mother, I always find it harder to hear suggestions from my family members; perhaps it is ego, or maybe it's that my own family members are not particularly gentle or tactful!

Lynne Fearman
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I'm grateful for this subject today. I've been longing to get some respect for the illustrators out there.
Thank you for all your comments, I've enjoyed reading them all. It's food for thought.

Judy Mudd
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Maureen, you are not alone in this. I have felt this way, too--after all, how would anyone else know about what direction you are going with your painting or ideas better than you? If you are getting ideas or opinions from a more advanced artist or art expert, then you might want to take it into consideration, but I usually don't ask for opinions until I know that I am completely finished with my project and for some reason not happy with the results. Then, I ask for opinions.

I was amazed to find this same sentiment from Mary Whyte. I don't know if you are familiar with her or not, but I just took an advanced atelier with her last month. She is an outstanding watercolorist--I saw in her gallery that her paintings are selling for $40,000 and CBS is doing a segment on her on CBS Sunday Morning, so she is definitely what I would call an expert artist. This is what she told me...she never wants family or others to see what she is painting until it is finished. She said, "If they make suggestions, I think 'what do they know' and tear it up. If they say they like it, I think 'what do they know' and tear it up."

Either way, it is a tear it up situation and I feel exactly the same way.

It's not that I don't want criticism, in fact I welcome it to improve my paintings. But, I never want someone to say something is good, bad or ugly until I finish it. I don't want opinions to influence the direction I may take the painting. It has to speak from MY heart, not of others. If I hear ANYTHING, it will influence my feelings about the painting, it just does. I want it to be mine, all mine. So, I pretty much keep it to myself until I'm ready to unveil it and then what ever happens, happens. So, you are not alone!


Esther J. Williams
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Judy, I feel the same way. I feel that outer influences jade my paintings and that special bond I have with the art. When I am out painting en plein air, I see lots of other artists looking at other artists work, they take a walk around to see what everyone else is painting. I just like to keep to myself and communicate with my art spirit and the scene itself. To interrupt that is rude. My family can be very rude I tell them. I wish I had an outside studio, I think my work would improve tenfold.

Keith Bond
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The conversation is fun to follow. Many great comments. Thank you.

A few of you commented about the idea of asking questions. Some of you gave examples of things like what color is that or how should I paint that? While these questions are important, I think the idea behind the original concept was deeper than that.

The artist who made the original comment was refering to questions like:

What is my relationship to nature? to my neighbor? to the world?

or

Why do I respond to the way that tree stands solidly on the hill?

or

Do rocks have life within them on some other level that we cannot comprehend? Do they feel emotion?

His point was that artists were deep thinkers and inquisitive, always searching and trying to understand or make sense of the world. I think these are good traits to have as an artist.

But yes, we also need the practical questions of how to paint that rock the right color with proper form and volume and edges, etc. to express our curiosity about it.

Marta Brysha
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Thanks Sue, my dad was indeed a wise man in many ways. He was also something of an off beat philosopher. When he was dying of cancer the chemo made him go deaf. As a musician, this was devastating for him. At the time I was living overseas and he wrote me about this alarming side effect and quipped; "better alive and deaf than dead with good hearing". That's a motto I try to live by every day!
Dena Kirk
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Another great article, Keith! Interesting topic and ironic that I was just discussing this about a week ago with my mentor and teacher, Kevin Weckbach. I love some of the artist/illustrators of the twenties. In particular, we were discussing the work of Allen Tupper True, whose work was recently showcased at several venues in Denver. He studied with NC Wyeth and, I believe, Howard Pyle. These artists were also illustrators for books and magazines and for many other venues. I consider them true artists because they had a clear visual approach...a visual purpose to their paintings. Pure illustration is done to sell a product, plain and simple. That is the goal. Whereas, an artists goal is to create a work with a visual purpose...the art is about that as oppossed to being about the "object" or subject matter of the art. That being said, commercial artists that become fine artists are some of the best artists I have known! They really have the instinct for good design in a painting. Add that to having a clear visual approach and you have the makings of an excellent artist and strong work.
Maureen Sharkey
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"Why do I respond to the way that tree stands solidly on the hill?"

Why do we paint? We see it. Then we want to paint it. Why? This would be a good time to be a great writer. Too bad I'm just an artist.

I have always been interested in paintings and to paint. As a little girl, upon entering a strange house, my eyes would immediatley go towards the paintings on the walls. I was drawn to them like a magnet. And blown away.

And I craved the feeling of the bristols of the brush moving across a surface guided by my hand.

And I concluded in early childhood, that to use one's mind to it's fullest potential, partly as a matter of principle, was to develope the skills necessary to paint nature (people) in an aesthetic way. That is what moved me.

The greatest books i ever read on the subject of art, and what is it, and what moves us, are written by the sculptor, Rodin. You can get his books at the library. (Rodin--in his own words)
Judy Mudd
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Yes, Esther, a private, outside studio would be great.
Diane Spears
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I'm late in reading this article, so my response is to the article and not necessarily to any of the really interesting responses.

Very good article. I've been on both sides - artist and illustrator, and I have found that the process of both for me is DISCOVERY and then communicating that discovery, which I suppose, functions the same as questions and answers. The only difference was communicating my own idea or that of another and doing it so that it did not fall into a "formula".
Sheryl Knight
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Keith, I enjoyed your post today about illustrators and fine artists and both communicating a message. I do feel I have a message to communicate in that I want my paintings to be uplifting, enjoyable, and peaceful for the viewer, but I probably paint mostly because I just love painting, for the joy it brings me. Thanks for making me think about this!

Joanne Benson
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Judy and Esther, Although I do plein air with friends and paint with a Tuesday night group....I understand what you mean by outside influences on your art. I have attended classes and workshops where I did what the instructor told me and became very disappointed in the results. I have also listened to their critiques and gone my own way because I knew I would be unhappy....That being said, it is sometimes best to follow your instincts when they are contrary to advice being given.....at least when you have reached a certain level of proficiency.
Tonya
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This is my personal statement - "Artists are thinkers and imaginators, each with a unique point of view, here to open minds and hearts, and expand the consciousness of the human race."
I have it posted at the bottom of my website. I think it applies to all artists.

Helen Horn Musser
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Tanya, So bold a statement with so much profound wisdom. Thank you for sharing with us.

Scott
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I've ntoiced this seems to be more of an issue amog "fine" artists than illustrators and a relatively new one at that. To discount lustration as not true art or lump

commissions into the illustration catagory would discount about 1000 years if artwork. After all, wasn't the Sistine chapel just another gig for a client?
Scott
via fineartviews.com
I've ntoiced this seems to be more of an issue amog "fine" artists than illustrators and a relatively new one at that. To discount lustration as not true art or lump

commissions into the illustration catagory would discount about 1000 years if artwork. After all, wasn't the Sistine chapel just another gig for a client?
Marta Brysha
via fineartviews.com
Well stated, Scott. In fact before the 19th or 20th centuries many (most?) artists worked under patronage.
Karen
via fineartviews.com
And God bless our patrons, still, every one of them!
Bob Breur
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Artist vs Illustrator? How about Woodcarver vs Sculptor? I am a wood sculptor who started as a carver then studied clay sculpting of the figure and now concentrates on smooth wood forms depicting that which is expressed in silent body language . I work to remove all traces of "The Maker's Mark" typical of the "Woodcarver" and leaved all the credit to the model. ie. I strive to remove myself as the "Middle Man" in presenting the model's emotions directly by authentic capturing of their body shapes.
Anne Watson
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I'm glad you brought this up--it's come up in sideline comments in other articles. I consider myself both, and adamantly defend the position that the line between illustration and "fine art" is arbitrary and subjective. I'm speaking, of course of the work that comes from the highest point of creativity from both. There are as many generic, uninspiring paintings for sale in galleries and shows as there are uninspired illustrations for products. But there are also as many amazing "illustrations" that make me think and want to frame them for my wall as there are "fine art" pieces.

Wallace
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Speaking to "What is Art?" over Commerical Art?
I have heard it both ways, What we think Art is... or is not? I have heard, "it aint art untill it is sold". Meeting of the minds, when the Viewer gets it, that could be the Artistic birth.

I have thought about the (Illustrators question) Fine Artist ponder the question with contempt. As a former illustrator I have labored with that very question for ever.

My take on that is, an illustration is Art when we remove the lines. Precise lines laid down, skillfully depicting objects and the seperation
of objects, with uniform outlines.

Fine art could be removeing those outlines and seperating objects with colors and shades.
Illustrations are useually very precise. Art just looks precise. Needless to say.









 

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